*New Kid On the Blog! Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 lens, first look.

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leica 15mm f/1.7   Hi all.  Sorry for the lack of activity on the blog.  Lots of things happening in the Robichaud camp of late, many of which have required a large amount of time, energy and emotional involvement.  All’s well, and one thing I’ve been really wanting to share is a quick look at this new micro 4/3 gem.  The (Panasonic) Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 aspherical micro 4/3 lens is the fourth Leica branded lens for the micro 4/3 system, and much like the others I’ve shot with, brings with it a unique signature.  Boasting a fast f/1.7 maximum aperture setting, and a 30mm equivalent field of view in a solidly built little package, it should prove to be another success for the system.  An odd focal length, but one that if embraced, can give someone a unique wide angle that moonlights as a semi-standard a-la the more traditional 35mm focal length.  I have always been a 35mm lens fan, and not a fan of the 28mm lenses, rather opting for a 24mm as my wide angle and the 35 as my semi-wide/standard focal length of choice for all around shooting, this lens has forced me to reassess my past comforts, but to be fair, the Oly 75mm falls into that same category, and I love that one, so I’ve found room in my heart for odd focal lengths in the past.  (*If interested, you can now read my review and comparison piece using the Leica 15mm HERE)  Okay, let’s take a quick look at this little lens…   Pantso enjoys the leica Leica?! That’s not a Leica!  Well, no it isn’t, but yes it is.  If you mean that it wasn’t manufactured in Germany, than, no it’s not a Leica lens in the purest form of the word, but it is a proprietary optical formulation, co-designed and approved by Leica in conjunction with Panasonic, and is then manufactured by Panasonic in Japan.  To me, it is the best of both worlds in that it has a bit of that Leica magic without the ridiculous price tags, and if we’re to follow this same logic, much of Leica’s own products shouldn’t then be “Leica” as much of their own product line (non M lines) are basically rebranded Panasonic cameras anyway. All that said and done, ignore the name on the front, and have a look at the lens on its own merits.  For reference, I’ve shot everything you’ll see here in RAW and processed in Aperture, exported to size as a JPEG.  I’ve not done anything to the shots where I’m showing CA, distortion or the like.  Obviously for the shot above, I converted it to black and white, but really if I’m mentioning the lens’ performance in a particular area, I’ve not corrected, nor adjusted anything in post to give you the same image I’m seeing straight out of the camera. leica 15mm f/1.7 with hood

  • Build quality?

As solid as anything for the system so far.  Metal, glass and a confident heft that lets you know you’re shooting through a quality optic.  The manual aperture ring is great, and while I question its long term usefulness for this system (it isn’t click less which would be good for video) and so often I’m going to shoot it wide open anyway, it can be seen as potentially surplus for a majority of micro 4/3 users.  That the manual aperture control doesn’t work on Oly bodies as of now is kinda annoying for those who do want to manually control it (you control the aperture as you would any other lens when on an Oly body) but that could feasibly be a firmware fix.  Regardless, this feature might be a boon, or for those who don’t really care, or happen to shoot with Oly bodies, you set the lens to it’s “A” (auto) setting, and it operates just as any other lens will. No it is not weather sealed, which very few lenses for this system (or any system) are, and that isn’t too surprising.  One nice thing that I do appreciate with most all of the Panasonic lenses I’ve purchased (aside from the pancakes), it has a lens hood included!!!  It also comes with a nifty little bag.  I do wish, that to employ the lens hood, one would not need to remove a ring on the front of the lens as I then have to keep track of that little piece, but what it does do is give you plenty of room to use filters with the hood on, and I guess decreases the diameter of the hood where it attaches to the lens, keeping it lower profile.  You can see a shot down near the bottom of the post where I have the lens with and without hood for comparison’s sake. P1060414 - Version 2

  • Image Quality?

So far, so good.  I will be pitting this lens against a couple other of the system lenses in the same general focal range to see if it can be a replacement for the other two Panasonic lenses in that semi-wide/standard neighborhood, namely the Panasonic 14mm f/2.5 and the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 II pancakes.  I’d love to compare it to the Oly 17mm f/1.8 lens, but I don’t have one.  If anyone wants to send me theirs, I’d be happy to do a comparison 🙂 From the week I’ve been shooting this lens, I can say that it delivers as I’d assume a lens with the reputation it has already developed would.  It is priced high, but does that high price equate to higher quality?  That is going to be measured in very small increments if I’m being honest from my initial feeling, but as far as image quality goes, this little lens does very well for itself.  It is a fast and accurate focuser that enables a micro 4/3 shooter the ability to shallow up the depth of field decently for such a wide angle lens.  The color, saturation and contrast all have a bit of the Leica magic which I like to pump up the Pana-Leica 25mm f/1.4 lens for having, and while the 15mm lens doesn’t quite have the same level of almost 3D like punch to the images that the 25mm has, I feel it is more to do with the substantially wider angle of view coupled with a half stop slower max aperture comparatively. I will have a closer look at pure sharpness and the like at a later date, but to my eye, for the casual carry around, it has been sharp, contrasty and renders color well.  It has a similar signature to the PL25/1.4 to my eye as far as color and contrast, and that is a really good thing. leica 15mm low angle

  • Distortion?

Yep.  It’s a wide angle lens, and when shot from a non-leveled angle, you will see converging lines and bowing pretty quickly.  I will try to do a more thorough test on this with optical correction via in camera JPEG processing, or even in post correction processing, but I see most wide angle applications as story telling where square lines are less important.  Where I feel the distortion will be most annoying will be in interior or landscape situations where you’re dealing with straight lines.  Again, I’ll compare it to other lenses, and see what the in camera processing may do for it. Distortion though, especially with lenses wider than standard, is common.  Even for longer focal lengths, if you get down low and tilt your camera upwards, you’re going to have to deal with perspective distortion, keystoning and converging lines as well.  It’s part of the photographic reality, it just becomes much more quickly evident the wider the angle of view, especially near the edges of the frame.  Keeping the camera level, this lens does well though most of the frame (again, I’m shooting in RAW) as you can kind of see below. P1060406

  • Flare?

Yep. The hood helps with cross light or reflection, but when the sun, or any strong source of light is in frame, flare shows up.  Not unique to this lens by any stretch of the imagination, and certainly more of a reality for wider focal lengths again as you’re introducing a much greater angle of view, and the optics to allow for that, but I’m kind of surprised it flares quite as much as it does.  I will say that it seems very cinematic in its flare though.  I haven’t seen the aggressive magenta or color bleeding flare that plagues other lenses for the system quite as badly, so to me, it is more a situation where I can work around flare by keeping the sun out of the frame, or stop down a couple stops and it is much better controlled. a flare for the leica 15mm lens There is a bit of the magenta and green flaring, but is pretty confined and I moved the camera around here to get it to show up as much as I possibly could. One thing I’m impressed by here though is that it has not robbed me of my contrast and saturation to a great extent.  I don’t see a big desaturation or loss of contrast in the shot above, and for that I’m happy.  The shot above was taken at f/2.2, and the one below is wide open at f/1.7: a flare for the slide

  • Chromatic Aberration

CA normally shows itself at wider apertures in situations where there is extreme contrast and/or substantial backlighting where the light essentially bleeds over the edge from a point where the highlight information merges back into the measurable scale of your histogram.  Normally you’ll see magenta/cyan shifts, or sometimes yellow/blue shifts. This lens seems to do well to control CA within reason.  Below is an example of this extreme contrast with severe lighting and highlight clipping where you can see a little cyan fringing along the window sill and his hair where the light hits him.  Usually, this is easy to correct, and for a CA shift this mellow, it can be very easy in most any image processing software. P1060400 P1060400 - Version 3

  • Shallow DOF, Bokeh?

Wide angle lenses, inherently (mathematically) exhibit a deeper depth of field, meaning it is both easier to keep an entire scene in focus and more difficult to separate a subject from other elements in the scene by way of a shallow DOF.  Bokeh is a popular catch phrase right now, and an attribute that many of us are curious about in regards to a particular lens.  Bokeh is a result of depth of field, and more accurately, how your plane of focus interacts with the scene you’re shooting.  The definition varies, but is basically the subjective quality of the out of focus areas in an image.  Bokeh is probably most linked to the rendering of out of focus points of light, or what many like to call, bokeh balls.  If you have a larger aperture, combined with a close focusing distance, it is easier to separate your subject from back ground elements and throw any points of light in the distant background into the globulous light we all seem to enjoy. bee bokeh Can this little lens do this?  Yes, yes it can.  Pretty easily actually.  One nice feature of this lens is its very close minimum focusing distance of about 8″ which very quickly narrows the depth of field if shooting at a wider/faster aperture such as f/1.7 or f/2.  Now, can you include your subject or subjects in the frame at this close a focusing distance?  Not if it is a large group of people, no, but for head shots, or even full body shots when any background elements are far enough away, you bet. bokeh leaves with the leica   out at the game A fast semi-wide angle lens can be a lot of fun.  While you won’t get the background obliteration you’ll find with the longer portrait or telephoto focal lengths, you also don’t have to be a hundred feet away to take a group shot.  For close in shooting, and what I see as an “everyday” type of documentary lens, this general focal length does very well.  When you have the ability to shoot in lower light and more easily shallow up your depth of field, then it’s all the better.

  • Conclusion:

As I’d mentioned above, I see this lens as a story telling lens.  The type of lens that will work for a day to day, documentary lens.  It’s wide enough to allow for quite a bit of your scene making for a good environmental portrait lens, and allows you to focus very closely to allow for a shallow depth of field if wanted.  The relatively fast maximum aperture, combined with this wide angle of view will do me very well as a handheld, low light lens for times out and about in the darker hours.  I want to get it out to shoot some live music, and it will most certainly become my go to lens for time spent out with friends and the like.  It’s light weight and small for a non pancake lens, but has a solidity and heft which contradicts its seemingly feathery profile. While it may take someone a bit to get used to the arguably odd focal length, my eye has quickly adapted and I feel it could very well be replacing both my 14mm and 20mm pancakes making it about a wash financially.  The included metal hood is nice, and while this lens is obviously built to fit the GM1 and future iterations, it doesn’t feel in anyway wrong when using it on the larger GX7. Like I said, I will do a comparison soon so stay tuned for that.  I also have a comparison article with the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 which I’ve also been enjoying immensely of late, so lots of lens based stuff in the works. Thanks as always for the read.  I’d forgotten how much I’d missed writing about photography and photographic gear which has been a wonderful escape from the crap life has been throwing at us of late, so I appreciate you humoring me and my rambling. Here is a shot of the lens with the hood on the GX7, and without the hood on the GM1.  No, I do not own two copies of this lens, just a few minutes of spare time and a legally purchased license for Photoshop CS6. Leica 15mm f/1.7 with and without hood GX7 GM1

*Read my review of the Pana-Leica 15mm f/1.7 and comparison to the Lumix 14mm and 20mm lenses HERE

The Panasonic-Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 Aspherical lens is now widely available.  You can click the links below to see it at both B&H as well as Adorama in both Black (available now) and Silver (currently only available pre-order).  These links are connected to my affiliate account, and if purchased through these, gives me a small commission, so if you do choose to buy this lens and do so through my links, thank you very much in advance 🙂 Black Leica 15mm f/1.7 at Adorama HERE and at B&H HERE Silver Leica 15mm f/1.7 at Adorama Pre-Order HERE Anyone new to the blog, we have a growing community on Flickr here, or find me on Facebook or Twitter to stay in touch.  If you’d like to receive articles via email, just enter your email address at the top right of this page. Happy shooting everyone, Tyson

47 thoughts on “*New Kid On the Blog! Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 lens, first look.”

  2. though this appears to be a very nice lens…I am opting out on this one….for me there a lot of lenses with similar lengths…I have the 17 mm 1.8 and really enjoy that lens on my E-M1…I know a difference of a few mm really can matter…and unlike you I prefer the 28 over the 35 length…but I am adaptable…when I shoot street photography I just pull out my old and battered Nikon 1 v1 with the 10mm 2.8…my motto is…shoot what you got….also any chance you can get your hands on an Olympus tough 3 for review ? Thanks Tyson…glad you and the family are well

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    • We m43 shooters are fortunate in that whether we go for a set of Olympus 12-17-25mm 1.8 or the PanaLeica 15 & 25mm Summiluxes, we’d still be getting high quality lenses in a compact package. Which set to choose is a good conundrum to have!

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      • Exactly. People seem to naturally like to gravitate toward brands, and while I feel certain brands do certain things better, in this case, we have two very high quality options which we can mix and match. Why limit ones self to one or the other? I certainly won’t 😉

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    • I hear you Florence.

      I’m not aware of any other system that has this range as well covered, that hasn’t been making lenses for 50+ years 🙂

      The fact that this system has so many choices between 24mm and 50mm (equivalents) is pretty remarkable. Each lens seems to have it’s own set of strengths and weaknesses, or at least perceived weaknesses, but all in all, having the choice is a great, great thing.

      I have been very curious about the 17/1.8 from Oly as I really prefer the 35mm e-fov over a more standard 50mm for my traditional “normal” lens. With the actual definition of standard by format, for micro 4/3, the actual standard focal length would be just about 20mm, so the Panny 20 is probably the closest to a true standard as we have, and because I’ve had that lens since day one, I stayed pretty happy with it, and never seriously considered the Oly 17mm for that reason. I did end up with the PL25, and while I’m not a huge fan of a 50mm e-fov, I will say, it might be, in my personal opinion, the best lens for image quality overall for the system, so I’ve gotten used to shooting with it.

      Add to all this, the more squared format of a 4:3 vs a 3:2 and we are narrowing our angle of view on the horizontal axis comparatively where a 90 degree angle of view, or a 75 degree, etc is measured from corner to corner where those corners become more vertically oriented by comparison.

      All said and done, while I’m not head over heels for this little 30mm yet, I feel it is more down to the unfamiliar feel of it’s angle of view and once I become a bit more familiar, I think I’ll begin to appreciate it much in the way I’ve grown to appreciate the PL25 or Oly75 for instance.

      thanks and enjoy the 17mm, I’m sure it is a great lens, and know I’m still jealous of it 🙂

      cheers,
      t

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  3. I think I want one, in a kit with the GM1. It may have minor problems, but I can get around those. A store offered me a really good price on the GM1 with 12-32mm lens and I turned it down to get this lens.

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    • This should be the GM kit lens moving forward, or at least a choice for a kit. The 12-32 is a great little kit zoom too, but if they could keep the kit price realistic for the GM2 (if and when) with this lens, at say $749-799 with the 12-32 kit at $599-649 or so, I think it would be a compelling choice with no wrong answer.

      t

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      • The store in New Jersey offered me the GM1/12-32mm kit for $600 (and Adorama has an effectively-similar deal with a $100 gift card). I could imagine buying the GM1/15mm kit at $999 since it would still be about $300 cheaper than the Fuji X100s.

        I was impressed with the size, depressed that it didn’t have a viewfinder at any price. My thumbprints are probably still on it.

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      • Well, we have the GM5 now. It’s close to being my dream camera. A tilting screen would have made it perfect. I’m very happy with it as it is though. A huge improvement on the GM1. The Panasonic 15mm is the ultimate companion for the GM5.

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  4. I’m looking forward to the comparisons, particularly if you can borrow an O17 F1,8. I like the look of the lens and I am considering it seriously. But part of me thinks I’m crazy as I can get a Ricoh GR for less money. It will be very interesting to see what your comparison uncovers.

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  5. Great review, I’ve found myself rather curious about this lens in the last couple of days and wondering how it fairs against the 20mm and 14mm so will eagerly await your write up on that. It is an interesting focal length and I’m very curious to know if it could be on the camera majority of the time lens as my 20mm currently is. I hope things are all getting a bit more normal your end and you are all ok. As always, really enjoyed reading this! Now, I’m off to London to watch Black Sabbath and play with my gx7. Take it easy man!

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    • I think it can certainly coexist with the 20mm, but in my gut, I think the minuscule 14mm is on its way out as they really make each other redundant unless someone loves the 28mm fov AND needs that tiny pancake.

      Because I also have the 25mm, I think that the 20, sitting between these other two could also spell the end for mine at least. Now, all I’m hoping for is that damn 7mm or 8mm rectilinear prime lens…

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  6. Great review, Tyson!
    I purchased this lens last week and have been shooting with it plenty ever since; my first impressions are very possitive, but I wanna take some more time to shoot in more varied conditions and environments before writing my own review in my blog.
    Looking forward to reading your comparison with the other lenses!

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    • Thanks Gonzalo!

      Yes, I’m curious to see and read your findings. I too am continuing to evolve my view on this little lens, but to me there is no doubt that aside from arguments surrounding any price or branding issues, it is a great little optic from my experience even with an odd focal length for my liking.

      Cheers,
      t

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  7. Thanks for the review. The lens with its hood on looks good. This + the 25mm Summilux and a 75mm Summarit I already have would make for a superb travel set. Now I just need a Panasonic second body as back up to my EM5 to maximise the features and for video.

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    • Yeah, the hood is a little weird, and while I think I understand the shape (allowing filters) I do wonder why they would have just made it cylindrical to match the barrel as opposed to the tapered bulge, but really, cosmetics rarely really bother me when they’re this minor. I no longer have an EM5, but would have like to see how it did with the sony sensor as well. Hopefully, Olympus and Panasonic will work together to allow the Oly JPEG engine to correct for optical distortion (although this is pretty easy to deal with when necessary in post) and allow for the aperture ring to function as it does on the Pana bodies (which I’m sure could be issued in a firmware update). As far as the Panasonic side of things though, I do love both the GM1 and GX7, but if I had to choose, the GX7 would be my choice on the Panasonic side purely on functionality and IBIS, unless 4K were any priority in which case the GH4 would be the only go to, obviously 🙂

      Thanks,
      t

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      • Thanks for the validation for the GX7. I have been reading and hearing really good things about its video, in particular. Now I just need to wait for it to come down a little bit in price! The GH series is out of the question for me, but I have been looking at the G6 (a bit big) and GF6 (very, very nice and compact, but lacking the top-line video quality of the GX7?).

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    • I leave lens hoods at home. They make the whole package larger and uglier. No need for them most of the time. I can always shield the front with my hand.

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      • I kinda like the PL15mm hood, although it doesn’t fit perfectly with the GM’s which disallows the camera to sit flat when set down, but doesn’t get in the way the same on the GX7. I can understand the preference to not muck up the good looks of the PL15 with the hood, but I like it better than a filter 🙂 I do however dislike the need to remove the ring to seat the hood though. That is a pretty crappy design flaw in my opinion. I’d have preferred a slick, flush fitting screw in hood myself.

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  8. Thanks for this review. I’m also considering selling my 20mm for this lens, but as a current owner of the Oly12mm, do you think this lens would be redundant? I’m using the 12mm, 20mm, and Oly 45mm currently on my EM10 and I’m looking to sell the 20mm for either the PL15 or PL25 but the latter one is a bit big size-wise for my liking and I’m not sure that I would enjoy that FL. Any suggestions welcome!

    Thanks.

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    • That is tough to say. I’ve shot with the Oly 12 and it is a great lens. I tend to like a 24mm true wide angle lens versus the more moderate 28mm (or in this case 30mm) and for one to have use for both these focal lengths would be a personal choice. For me, if I already owned the 12mm and the 20mm, I’d probably stay put assuming I was happy with both of these lenses. I think that to an extent, the 15mm could be used in place of both of these, you’d be compromising a bit either way. I’m settling in and looking like I’ll be getting rid of my 14mm and 20mm, ending up with the 15mm, 25mm, 45mm and 75mm. I would like an ultra wide, rectilinear prime. One that has good optical correction for distortion that I could use for interiors and landscapes as this is really the only hole I truly have (aside from perhaps a good wide tilt shift) for this system. The 7-14mm looks good, but just seems cartoony in it’s distortion to me almost. At least to the point that I don’t think I could use it commercially for interiors where scale is important (to me at least). I think that an 8mm f/3.5 prime lens is about what I’m hoping for… The first to do this, or close to this for a reasonable price might just get me to jump ship entirely from my full framers…maybe 🙂

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      • I just don’t see the logic of replacing the Panny 20 with the Panny 15. That is quite a difference in focal length. The actual 40mm length of the 20 seems a better fit than either 30mm or 50mm…especially for travel & street shooting. I’ve settled on a travel kit consisting of the GX7 & GM1, with the 20/1.7, 45/1.8, 12-32/3.5-5.6 (my wide angle)…and the fun little Oly 9mm body cap, which is surprisingly good de-fished. But, to each his own. They’re all fine lenses.

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      • Yeah, it isn’t a direct replacement necessarily, but when one also has the PL25, the 20 can start to seem a little redundant.

        I think a 12-20-45 or 15-25-45 would be a good combo, capable of handling a majority of what most shoot, where either of the wides, or either of the standards could be interchanged essentially.

        I’m just looking to pare down my lens cache at this point as a couple lenses are going to be seeing more and more shelf time.

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  9. Hey Tyson thanks for your review mate. Hope all is well now at home! While no already got my panny 15mm already (I am about to test it today) I am going to do some more Amazon.com shopping (not camera specific products though) tonight or tomorrow USA time. Would love to support you through affiliate links. If this is possible can you please send your Amazon affiliate link asap? Thanks Jin

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    • Hi Jin!

      Thanks. I don’t have an affiliate account set up through Amazon yet, but thank you for the offer. Enjoy the spending spree, there is little else that is as fun for me 😉

      Cheers and keep me posted with what you end up getting!

      t

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      • Hiya Tyson, no problems 🙂 Btw I have been. Using the Panasonic 15mm for a couple of days. The pictures turn out pretty good (sharp enough) though I must say I expected more from it’s low light performance (maybe I am still getting used to it). But my fussy-ness could be due to the fact that I am spoilt by my Voigtlander 17.5mm which produces such amazing sharp photos even in low light. Perhaps once paired with a GM-2 with ibis might change everything Haha.

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  10. Pingback: More Leica 15mm f/1.7 Lens Reviews | Daily Camera News

  11. Hi! Still suspicious and waiting for your comparison 15mm vs the Oly 17mm.
    For me its about completing the existing (and lasting) Oly 12 + Pana 20 line.
    15mm still seems a bit odd to me in terms of FL, on the other hand would be right in the middle between 12 and 20mm.
    When will you do your 15-17 comparison, can’t wait!
    Thanks in advance!

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    • Thanks Ray.

      I wish that I could, but I do not have, nor plan to have a 17mm to test against unfortunately. I never bought the 17 because I felt the 20 was close enough, cheaper and lower profile. When the 15 came out, and having owned the 25 for a while now, I’m began to question which focal lengths would suit me best as well as which lenses I enjoyed shooting with the most.

      I’d love to do a side by side comparison between the PL15 and Oly17, but since I purchase everything that I test and review, It will have to wait until someone wants to let me borrow theirs 🙂

      Thank you for the comment, and honestly, I don’t think you could really go wrong with any of the 15, 17 or 20, although with the 12, I’d say you can skip the 15, and possibly even the 17 seeing as you have the 20 unless you really prefer a 30mm or 35mm e-fov.

      Cheers,

      Tyson

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      • Yeah I find the 15, 17, 20 too close to each other (and budget and wife won’t permit!). I actually find the 15mm quite flexible especially when a lot of photos are taken indoors of family i.e. I don’t have to step back much! I feel the next complementary focal length didn’t need to be too close to the Panasonic 15mm (OK the exception is my Voigtlander 17.5mm but that’s a truly special lens heheh) so the other one I have is the Olympus 45mm f/1.7, which is I find a truly FANTASTIC lens for the price! Then with the Panny 14-140mm for long distance plus a Oly 9-18mm for wide angle, I’m happy as anything 🙂

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  13. I was looking for a compact moderate wide angle AF prime lens and I had to choose between the Olympus 17mm f/1.8 and this Panasonic 15mm f/1.7. I love the little Olympus primes. I own the 25mm f/1.8 and the 45mm f/1.8 and I have used the 17mm f/1.8. I chose the Panasonic based on the better image quality. The contrast is better, especially wide open. Sharpness is also better, especially the corner sharpness. There’s a nice comparison on cameralabs.com!

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    • I’ll admit, I do wish that the PL was a more traditional 35mm focal length equivalent, but I agree, everything I’ve seen comparing this with the Oly 17/1.8 shows the benefit swinging to the PL15 in most every comparable way.

      The color and contrast profiles for the Pana-Leica lenses are, in my opinion, the best for the system (at least the PL15 and PL25, as I’ve not shot extensively with the PL42.5 or PL45 myself). A richness and almost 3D quality that I’ve not seen in any of the other lenses from Panasonic or Olympus that I’ve used. We pay a premium for it, but when looking at what that type of IQ bump can cost for an EF-L lens, or a Zeiss Lens for instance, the cost can be a bit easier to stomach in my opinion.

      Yeah, Gordon always does a great job with his comparisons on CL. Always worth a read.

      Thanks for the comment man!

      Cheers,
      Tyson

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